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Weird Things After Replacing Start Solenoid and Key Ignition Switch

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    Weird Things After Replacing Start Solenoid and Key Ignition Switch

    RZT 50 Model 17W12ACP056, Serial 1E161H10387. After replacing above parts, the engine starts OK but when I release the brake or lift either RH or LH lever arm from the at rest position, the engine stops. I suspected something might be wrong with the new ignition switch, but the chat desk at Cub Cadet said I had the proper switch 725-04228.

    #2
    I might add I am working with electrical diagram designed for Harness Number 725-04847A. Violet from Cub Cadet sent the proper diagram. It appears very nearly the same.

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      #3
      Need more help. Using the circuit diagram that Violet Stepka from Cub Cadet sent me, I have a couple of questions. When the ignition key is in the RUN position, the 12v battery power goes from Battery to Run terminals on the ignition switch, then TO PIN 3 on the Engine Connection, and TO PIN 8 on the Dash Connection, and TO PIN 1 on the PTO switch. Since PIN 1 on the PTO switch is a dead end because the switch in normally open when the PTO switch is OFF:

      1. Is there any feed back from the Engine or from the Dash to help understand the rest of the circuit? It seems necessary to me.
      725-04847C (1).pdf

      Comment


        #4
        Sorry I haven't had the time to take a look at this until now. I will see if I can help you out.

        First thing.... why did you replace the ignition switch? Was there a problem you were trying to correct, or you just lost the keys or?? Just wondering why you replaced it.

        Next thing is the ignition switch actually pretty much does nothing once the engine is running. The problem you are describing would have to be in the safety circuitry, which is pretty complex on this model. I would say either you have a bad switch somewhere, or a short/ broken wire.

        So as far as your question goes, yes, power leaves the ignition switch on the "D" terminal. As you stated, it then goes to the engine terminal #3; as well as the dash module to terminal #8; and also to the PTO switch terminal #1. That's pretty much it. As far as the wire running to the engine, that is the wire that powers the fuel shut off the solenoid. No, there is no "feedback" from the dash or engine on any of the wires mentioned. It is a simple system, not a CAN bus.

        The Kawasaki engine is a magneto ignition engine. A magneto needs no power source to run. To shut the engine off, a wire attached to the magneto is grounded, thus grounding out the energy going to the spark plugs. The safety system works in the same way. It (safety system) bypasses the ignition switch and grounds the magneto to shut off the engine. The system is made up of a large group of switches. Two brake switches, a switch on both the control sticks, the seat switch and the PTO switch. You are going to have to do a systematic check of them to figure out which one isn't working. All the switches are in the wiring diagram. Look that part over and see if you understand it, or have more questions. It might help to print it out.
        ~Jonathan
        Oblong, Illinois

        Just because it's old, doesn't mean it's obsolete!

        I've got a lot of Cubs in the barn....but I have more implements/attachments!

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks J-Mech. The mower belongs to my son and he is mechanically challenged. I was a tool maker in my former life, not an electrician. I can usually work though a circuit, but it takes awhile and tracing the circuits on this mower is not easy because of the position of the switches. You answered my question about any feedback that might come from the Dash and Engine. That eliminates the problem that was not shown clearly on the diagram. I replaced the Ignition switch because it had been man-handled and the key was bent. I think now that it had nothing to do with the present problem. Which is: I can now unplug Brake Switch #1 and the engine will continue to run when I release the Brake Lever and also lift the 2 Neutral Levers. However, when I energize the PTO switch to start the blades, the engine dies. Unplugging the #1 Brake Switch fixed one problem, but created another. I am slowly working my way, but have not reached the solution yet. A couple more attempts tomorrow and I may be back for more help. Thanks for volunteering your help.

          Comment


            #6
            A LITTLE LATER IN THE EVENING:

            Present situation:

            With all switches hooked up as shown on 725-04847C.pdf: Turn key to START. Batt-Run-Start signal goes through LH Neutral & RH Neutral switches, then through Brake Switch #2 because Brake Lever is in locked position, then through NC contacts in PTO switch because it is OFF position, then to Solenoid that connects the Battery to the engine Starter. Engine starts successfully.

            But: When brake lever is released, the engine dies. OR: If either Neutral Lever is lifted, the engine dies.

            Now, if I unplug Brake Switch #1, I can restart the engine and the Brake Lever can be moved off locked position and the engine continues to run. And I can lift either of both Neutral Levers and the engine continues to run, and I can drive the mower. But, when I lift the PTO Switch to ON position to engage the mower blades, the engine dies.

            This is the simplest description I can offer.

            Comment


              #7
              reevesjo
              I am going to assume that you are sitting in the seat when you release the brake lever and the engine dies? Then, sitting in the seat, if you unhook the brake lever and proceed, everything is working?

              I think I know what the problem is, but I really want you to figure it out. I drew up some example diagrams as to how the power and grounds flow during different situations. There are probably 10 scenarios, and it would take quite a while to draw each one. Hopefully this helps you out.

              In each of these, I simply overlayed color to the circuit you need to pay attention to. I also drew in the correct switch orientation, as they are drawn in their natural state on the original diagram.


              Here is the start circuit:

              RZT 50 start circuit.png


              Here is the engine running, PTO "on", and all things as they will work normally.

              RZT 50 Mowing.png


              Here is the engine running, no operator present, all things functioning normally.

              RZT 50 PTO off, operator not present.jpg


              Here is what happens when the key is turned "off".

              RZT50 Key Off.png



              Look at the diagram where there is no operator in the seat. Think how the circuit would be if there were no operator in the seat and you tried to turn on the PTO. What about if you turned the brake off? Or tried to move the control levers? How would the electricity flow, (assuming everything is working correctly) to shut the engine off? Let me know if you still don't figure it out, or if these just confuse you more. I am pretty sure I know what is wrong......
              ~Jonathan
              Oblong, Illinois

              Just because it's old, doesn't mean it's obsolete!

              I've got a lot of Cubs in the barn....but I have more implements/attachments!

              Comment


                #8
                CASE CLOSED!!! Thanks J-Mech!!! Earlier when I checked the NC side of Brake Switch #1, it remained closed. This really caused me problems when troubleshooting when I wrongly assumed it should stay closed.. Today it had mysteriously started working, so when I re-plugged it back into the circuit, everything is working as it should. I greatly appreciate J-Mech's detailed schematics. The one showing this particular contact in the open position showed my assumption had been wrong from the beginning.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Good deal!! Glad to help!
                  ~Jonathan
                  Oblong, Illinois

                  Just because it's old, doesn't mean it's obsolete!

                  I've got a lot of Cubs in the barn....but I have more implements/attachments!

                  Comment

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