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Re Motoring a 1650

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    Re Motoring a 1650

    In the process of installing a 16hp Vanguard in a 1650. Got the tractor and snow thrower w/o engine but have the necessary parts to get it running again. Question is the connection between the flywheel and the drive shaft. Does that have to be custom built or is there a coupler available some place? Thanks much in advance.

    #2
    Vanguard.... twin?
    ~Jonathan
    Oblong, Illinois

    Just because it's old, doesn't mean it's obsolete!

    I've got a lot of Cubs in the barn....but I have more implements/attachments!

    Comment


      #3
      Yes a Vanguard twin 16 hp. Been busy working on the 1650. Have the drive adapter made, engine is installed and hook up. Engine runs good. Need to change the choke, throttle and ignition switch over to the steering town yet as it now is all on the engine. Need to work on the rear end/hydro too. Have forward but goes into neutral way to soon and have no reverse. I am thinking it is in the linkage but not real familiar with the Sundstrand. Have another complete rear end I can put in if I have to but would just as soon fix this one. Anyone run into this before and have suggestions? I am open to any and all as I am still learning these units. More familiar with the Bolens units. .

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        #4
        Sounds like the linkage needs adjusted, yes.
        ~Jonathan
        Oblong, Illinois

        Just because it's old, doesn't mean it's obsolete!

        I've got a lot of Cubs in the barn....but I have more implements/attachments!

        Comment


          #5

          Thanks J-Mech. going to mess with it this morning some. Some where I have the service manual for my 1512 cub which has the same hydro.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Chieffan View Post
            Thanks J-Mech. going to mess with it this morning some. Some where I have the service manual for my 1512 cub which has the same hydro.
            It does have the same hydro, but a completely different linkage system.....
            ~Jonathan
            Oblong, Illinois

            Just because it's old, doesn't mean it's obsolete!

            I've got a lot of Cubs in the barn....but I have more implements/attachments!

            Comment


              #7
              I know SEW offers the Vanguard twin as a replacement for the K341, but there are just too many problems not solved by them to install one.

              No room for a fuel tank
              No muffler tins (last I knew).
              Engine won't allow installation of side panels.
              I'm not convinced the PTO lines up.
              No engine adapter for driveshaft.
              No ignition switch upgrade, or wiring instructions.
              I'm not convinced the driveshaft alignment is correct.

              I've seen people do it, but I have yet to see a conversion done well. I don't see what's so hard about putting a Kohler back in. For the amount of time you've had the tractor, you shouldn't have had trouble finding a motor. 1650's aren't that hard to find. I don't know how you addressed all the issues, or if you just threw it in and hope it kind of works..... Either way, I just had to say I'm not super excited about the conversion. Wish you would have asked more questions so we could have helped you out making a decision or installing it. Should have just put a Kohler back in.
              ~Jonathan
              Oblong, Illinois

              Just because it's old, doesn't mean it's obsolete!

              I've got a lot of Cubs in the barn....but I have more implements/attachments!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by J-Mech View Post

                It does have the same hydro, but a completely different linkage system.....
                Yes it does have the exact same linkage.. Both are dash control hydros.

                Lining up the drive shaft is not that difficult if you know how to read a ruler. Don't know where your at but finding a Kohler in this area is a lot harder then you might think. Have not seen or heard of one in the last 8 or 10 months. In fact finding a running larger horizontal shaft engine of any brand is not that easy to do. Most one sneed rebuilt and I have one of them.

                I am well aware of your list of negatives but I guess if you don't know how to compensate or improvise those can be a problem. #1 Fuel tank goes on the back. #2 All the Briggs OEM muffler tins protection stays on right where Briggs put them. #3 So who cares about side panels? Haven't tried yet but they just might go on. #4 PTO and engine shaft lines up within 1/4". That is what the rag joints are for. Just have to angle the engine a bit. #5 Very simple to build - piece of tubing, big washer, two ears with a hole drilled in them and a welder. #5 Ignition switch upgrade? What are you talking about - upgrade. Use the OEM one off the Briggs, just extend the wires.Tie in the amp gauge, PTO switch, etc.

                I am not doing this to excite anyone. By the way J-Mech you were wrong about the no reverse also. Was a bad valve and that problem is solved also. I asked the questions I needed to ask and appreciate the answers. Will post some photos when I get it closer to being done. Not trying to do a restore on this, just wanting to save a good old tractor and put it back to work again. And it will not be a cobbled up modification. Just have to do a lot of planing and improvising.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I, too, had a 1650 that I got "engine-less" and parted it out, due to not being able to find a Cub spec K341 or even a 321, without another tractor attached, and I hunted for 2 years. and when I did, they cost more than one with the rest of a tractor included.....
                  could find plenty of them with a wide base and 1-1/8" dia. crank. I agree with the "any" horiz shaft engine being harder to find than a vertical shaft version.... and when you do, it is 2 to 3x the price in equal condition.…
                  Don
                  Kankakee IL

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I did an overhaul on a Kohler single in a CC about a year ago. It was shaft drive lawn tractor actually but don't remember the model number. Got nothing for my labor and just broke even on parts when I finally sold it. Not doing that again. Another reason I went with the Briggs as it was available, close and a running engine.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      welcome to the world of garden tractors.... that is typical and sometimes youre lucky to get that out of one. You do this not to get rich, but to rebuild a quality machine that, when done, you will have the same or less tied up into it than buying a (new) cheapened box store piece of crap that will actually "take it" (the wear and tear of what they were supposedly designed to do, which most box store machines won't for very long) and though having lasted 40+ years already, will still be on the job when that typical box store-bought POS will be made into tin cans.
                      Don
                      Kankakee IL

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Truer words were never spoken. I get a lot of enjoyment of refurbishing (I don't restore) one and see it back working again. Guess that is why I have 5 times more than I need. Getting task specific now. This one will have the cub 42" snow thrower on it.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Tractor is up and running but not completed yet. Needs some minor odd and ends done to it. Will try putting some photos up and see if it works?

                          Not going to work as the site don't like my files I guess. Works on all the other sites so not my photos either. Anyway, started this morning by removing all the old wiring, ignition switch, PTO switch, etc. Lengthened the engine wires to the ignition switch by a foot. Put the switch in the dash and plugged in the wiring harness. Run another ground from the engine ground to the tractor frame. All checked out good. Put the front end on and then the hood. Had to slide the nose back about 1/8" to get the hood to batch up with the tower. Had about 1/4" clearance for the original oil filter so won't have to move that. Side panels will not work but no big deal as far as I am concerned. Set the battery on the rear end, hooked it up and put a 2X4 on to for a temporary seat. Set a gas tank for a Bolens G11 behind the engine and strapped it down. Fired it up and went for a drive down the road a way and back. Hydro worked good, nice control, will creep in both forward and reverse and neutral is right where it is supposed to be. The hood will go clear down and clear the muffler guard but will have to make up a elbows for the muffler to turn the exhaust down then out again so it is not blowing right into the side of the hood. All in all I feel the install was a success and this 1650 will make one heck of a good snow thrower tractor. Will save taking the deck and mule drive off the 1512
                          each fall and back again each spring.

                          Might figure out how to make the photos smaller for this site. Otherwise they are on Tractor Fanatics.

                          Last edited by Chieffan; 09-02-2019, 07:42 PM. Reason: Tried one photo at a time. Still won't work. Says to large.

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                            #14
                            Put an extension on the muffler to it dumps out past the hood a couple inches. Cut a opening in the lower side of the hood to clear the extension. Got the PTO switch hook up through an existing fuse. Haven't done the Amp gauge yet. Fender pan back on and bolted down. Mounted the gas tank this morning but local "I can have it in the morning" store - NAPA - didn't have the fuel tank grommet or the shut off so will have to pick them up in the morning. Drove it around some yesterday with another small fuel tank strapped to the hood. Nice smooth running tractor now. Need to put the tach on the engine to see where the full throttle RPM is at. Haven't tried resizing the photos yet.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              SAM_1206.JPGSAM_1205.JPGSAM_1194.JPGSAM_1210.JPG image_2457.jpgSAM_1191.JPG SAM_1191.JPG Try at resized photo. Engine to drive shaft adapter and others.
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